Comments on: The War is Over! http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/ Wed, 23 May 2012 06:42:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: robin http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1496 robin Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:26:44 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1496 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0508140339aug14,0,71056.story?coll=chi-newsopinionperspective-hed Sorry guys here is the link http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0508140339aug14,0,71056.story?coll=chi-newsopinionperspective-hed

Sorry guys here is the link

]]> By: robin http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1495 robin Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:25:30 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1495 Here is a great article in chicago post about the war on terrorism. It seems that President Bush didn't get the memo. Here is a great article in chicago post about the war on terrorism.
It seems that President Bush didn’t get the memo.

]]> By: Crystal http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1494 Crystal Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:48:32 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1494 CAFTA and NAFTA are bad for America and they are bad for the global economy. We can't be competitive my ass. American workers are getting shafted so that the CORPORATION can continue to make sickening profits margins. Stop and think for a moment and let me connect the dots. No jobs=no healthcare= higher cost of medical care= more welfare & medicaid. That's just what we are doing to Americans with this crap. When our companies offshore those corporations the people who take those jobs are working in sweats shops and liv horrible lives. Which translates into hatered for America, which creates terrorism. The reason they aren't buying the Chevy's is they can't afford them. Further Till- Just because we can expolit poor nations doesn't mean we should. You should read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, John Perkins. I bet your imperialist attitude changes once you understand the far reaching effects. Union wages aren't what cost corporations to go belly up. CEO salaries and corruption cause that, my dear. Think of this the average CEO make 600% of what the average worker makes. Let's bring that salary back to earth and distribute it to the worker bees and see what happens. CAFTA and NAFTA are bad for America and they are bad for the global economy. We can’t be competitive my ass. American workers are getting shafted so that the CORPORATION can continue to make sickening profits margins. Stop and think for a moment and let me connect the dots. No jobs=no healthcare= higher cost of medical care= more welfare & medicaid. That’s just what we are doing to Americans with this crap. When our companies offshore those corporations the people who take those jobs are working in sweats shops and liv horrible lives. Which translates into hatered for America, which creates terrorism. The reason they aren’t buying the Chevy’s is they can’t afford them.
Further Till- Just because we can expolit poor nations doesn’t mean we should. You should read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, John Perkins. I bet your imperialist attitude changes once you understand the far reaching effects. Union wages aren’t what cost corporations to go belly up. CEO salaries and corruption cause that, my dear. Think of this the average CEO make 600% of what the average worker makes. Let’s bring that salary back to earth and distribute it to the worker bees and see what happens.

]]> By: chris http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1493 chris Thu, 04 Aug 2005 05:19:30 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1493 Ever wonder where your banana came from? In the vast majority of the cases products from CAFTA countries come in to U.S. fro free (bananas, sugar) yet products from the U.S. must pay heavy tariffs when it goes into these countries. Yes, we probably aren't going to sell many Chevy's in San Pedro de Macoris but it will open up U.S. products to new markets, as well as promoting democracy in the region. Ever wonder where your banana came from? In the vast majority of the cases products from CAFTA countries come in to U.S. fro free (bananas, sugar) yet products from the U.S. must pay heavy tariffs when it goes into these countries.

Yes, we probably aren’t going to sell many Chevy’s in San Pedro de Macoris but it will open up U.S. products to new markets, as well as promoting democracy in the region.

]]> By: Abbey http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1492 Abbey Wed, 03 Aug 2005 15:34:38 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1492 Till, I see what you're saying and I understand. However, I think its easy for you to say: "At this point people will have to be responsible for training themselves to become active in another sector of the economy." But its not so easy to say that when you see it with your own eyes. Often, it takes a generation or more to accomplish moving to another sector. What has the gov't done to help them when the companies move to Mexico? Most of the manufacturing workers of America don't have the privilage we have to go to college, or some other school and just retrain themselves. Take for example, my family. They live in a small town in Michigan where much of the local economy relies on manufacturing. The main factory makes refridgerators. My Grandfather, my Grandma, my Dad, my Uncle all worked there. My Stepmom worked for another factory. Electrolux closed to move to Mexico. My grandma and grandfather and grandmother retired, at a reduced benefit of course, because it was early. My Stepmom got laid off and now works at Wal-Mart for $7 an hour. My Dad is unemployed with no prospects, and no money to go to school. My Uncle is considering truck driving. It's not easy for me when I see the economies of small town all over my homestate struggling because its cheaper to pay Mexican workers. You wanna talk about what's fair? Tell it to them. That they'll just have to up and change their situations. Its not so easy. Unless they're willing to take a major paycut. That's even if they can find a job b/c they have to compete with all the other ppl who got laid off for the remaining jobs in the area. CAFTA may seem logical, but its not about that. My problem is with the lack of compassion for our own working (or unemployed)poor that I have a problem with. What happens to them? Till, I see what you’re saying and I understand. However, I think its easy for you to say:
“At this point people will have to be responsible for training themselves to become active in another sector of the economy.” But its not so easy to say that when you see it with your own eyes. Often, it takes a generation or more to accomplish moving to another sector. What has the gov’t done to help them when the companies move to Mexico? Most of the manufacturing workers of America don’t have the privilage we have to go to college, or some other school and just retrain themselves.

Take for example, my family. They live in a small town in Michigan where much of the local economy relies on manufacturing. The main factory makes refridgerators. My Grandfather, my Grandma, my Dad, my Uncle all worked there. My Stepmom worked for another factory. Electrolux closed to move to Mexico. My grandma and grandfather and grandmother retired, at a reduced benefit of course, because it was early. My Stepmom got laid off and now works at Wal-Mart for $7 an hour. My Dad is unemployed with no prospects, and no money to go to school. My Uncle is considering truck driving.

It’s not easy for me when I see the economies of small town all over my homestate struggling because its cheaper to pay Mexican workers. You wanna talk about what’s fair? Tell it to them. That they’ll just have to up and change their situations. Its not so easy. Unless they’re willing to take a major paycut. That’s even if they can find a job b/c they have to compete with all the other ppl who got laid off for the remaining jobs in the area.

CAFTA may seem logical, but its not about that. My problem is with the lack of compassion for our own working (or unemployed)poor that I have a problem with. What happens to them?

]]> By: Till B http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1491 Till B Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:51:19 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1491 What are you talking about? I don't think you listen to any of the arguments being made here... What are you talking about? I don’t think you listen to any of the arguments being made here…

]]> By: adam http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1490 adam Wed, 03 Aug 2005 06:01:41 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1490 Bottom line Till: Our trade agreements have cost America high-paying jobs. Not to mention that it is in America's interest to produce goods here at home (considering how the Middle East and China are becoming more hostile). Bottom line Till: Our trade agreements have cost America high-paying jobs. Not to mention that it is in America’s interest to produce goods here at home (considering how the Middle East and China are becoming more hostile).

]]> By: Till B http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1489 Till B Wed, 03 Aug 2005 04:42:16 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1489 I have four remarks to make about your previous comments. For once, the same argument about the protection of workers was made over a hundred years ago when we started to introduce machinery into the agricultural sector. Lots of jobs were lost, because the vast majority of tasks that used to be completed by American farm workers were suddenly automated. At this point people will have to be responsible for training themselves to become active in another sector of the economy. I can see why some people see this as a negative point, because this means change and change is often difficult to cope with. On the other hand, this is also progress. Without this kind of progress the opportunities that we have now at hand would have been impossible to implement. What do you think would have happened if we had decided to outlaw machinery to "protect" the American worker back in those days? These are short-term sacrifices that people have to make to guarantee a better living for the next generations to come. The other point is about your statement that "America needs manufactoring jobs that have decent pay and good benefits." Again, we live in a globally competitive environment and we cannot compete on the basis of paying "fair wages" to our workers. We probably could do so if American manufacturing was known for its superior quality. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. In the market place, one needs to decide if the company should pursue a quality or a price leadership strategy. We only seem to be able to compete based on the latter one. Honestly, I would rather take a pay cut or see 5,000 workers lose their job than seeing the whole corporation go bankrupt and make everyone lose their jobs. Consider the union wage struggle at GM as an example for that. The third point I have to make is your remark about "slave labor wages". Do you think that the "evil" American corporations come into so-called "third world" countries and make the locals work at their factories? Do you think any local is sad when they see a new factory move to their town? Point is that these "slave labor wages" keep families alive in these countries. Workers choose to work there because it is their best possible choice. The final point that slightly is disturbing me is the attack on the American trade policy based on the fact that we have a large trade deficit. Who do you think is causing this deficit? Is it the government that loves goods made in China or the consumer? I believe that the American people can blame themselves for that. The U.S. government has done a tremendous job in keeping the Dollar low and thus actively seeking to increase exports and decrease imports. I don't know if you are trying to use Karl Rove's strategy of attacking the strong points of the enemy, but I would leave this subject alone and concentrate on issues on which the government has really fucked up. I have four remarks to make about your previous comments. For once, the same argument about the protection of workers was made over a hundred years ago when we started to introduce machinery into the agricultural sector. Lots of jobs were lost, because the vast majority of tasks that used to be completed by American farm workers were suddenly automated. At this point people will have to be responsible for training themselves to become active in another sector of the economy. I can see why some people see this as a negative point, because this means change and change is often difficult to cope with. On the other hand, this is also progress. Without this kind of progress the opportunities that we have now at hand would have been impossible to implement. What do you think would have happened if we had decided to outlaw machinery to “protect” the American worker back in those days? These are short-term sacrifices that people have to make to guarantee a better living for the next generations to come.

The other point is about your statement that “America needs manufactoring jobs that have decent pay and good benefits.” Again, we live in a globally competitive environment and we cannot compete on the basis of paying “fair wages” to our workers. We probably could do so if American manufacturing was known for its superior quality. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. In the market place, one needs to decide if the company should pursue a quality or a price leadership strategy. We only seem to be able to compete based on the latter one. Honestly, I would rather take a pay cut or see 5,000 workers lose their job than seeing the whole corporation go bankrupt and make everyone lose their jobs. Consider the union wage struggle at GM as an example for that.

The third point I have to make is your remark about “slave labor wages”. Do you think that the “evil” American corporations come into so-called “third world” countries and make the locals work at their factories? Do you think any local is sad when they see a new factory move to their town? Point is that these “slave labor wages” keep families alive in these countries. Workers choose to work there because it is their best possible choice.

The final point that slightly is disturbing me is the attack on the American trade policy based on the fact that we have a large trade deficit. Who do you think is causing this deficit? Is it the government that loves goods made in China or the consumer? I believe that the American people can blame themselves for that. The U.S. government has done a tremendous job in keeping the Dollar low and thus actively seeking to increase exports and decrease imports.

I don’t know if you are trying to use Karl Rove’s strategy of attacking the strong points of the enemy, but I would leave this subject alone and concentrate on issues on which the government has really fucked up.

]]> By: adam http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1488 adam Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:09:50 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1488 I don't disagree that a capitalistic system is preferable to a socialistic system. However, our trade policy needs to be fairer to the American worker. America needs manufactoring jobs that have decent pay and good benefits. The current trade policy is gonna lead this country towards feudalism (metaphorically speaking). All I am saying is that the we need to ENFORCE our current trade policies and make sure that our trade agreements are fairer to U.S. workers. I am NOT anti-trade. I am not a protectionist. I don’t disagree that a capitalistic system is preferable to a socialistic system. However, our trade policy needs to be fairer to the American worker. America needs manufactoring jobs that have decent pay and good benefits. The current trade policy is gonna lead this country towards feudalism (metaphorically speaking). All I am saying is that the we need to ENFORCE our current trade policies and make sure that our trade agreements are fairer to U.S. workers. I am NOT anti-trade. I am not a protectionist.

]]> By: Joe http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1487 Joe Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:21:18 +0000 http://www.unodemocrats.com/the-war-is-over/#comment-1487 That's the price you pay for living in a capitalistic society. That is how it works guys. That’s the price you pay for living in a capitalistic society. That is how it works guys.

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