She’ll stop at nothing to hurt people.

Anyway, just my take on this.

Though I encourage student involvement and political action of any kind, your idea of a “socialist alternative” really doesn’t compute. On your new website, you say you stand for “narrowing the gap between the rich and the poor.” Well, that’s all well and good, but that’s also been the work of the Democratic Party since before your granddaddy was born. So, why does UNO need a “socialist” alternative? If you’re for ELIMINATING the gap between rich and poor, you might have a distinctive viewpoint - but otherwise I really don’t understand the need for a “Socialist” club. If “Economic Justice” is your true emphasis, why not call yourselves that rather than choosing an unnecessary title that automatically relegates you as a fringe group in the majority of people’s eyes. Might grab people’s attention but it certainly invites their dismissal as well…which is only going to stand in the way of your supposed message.

The same holds true for your call for tolerance of all “cultural, social, and religious beliefs.” That seems a tad extreme when religious beliefs can include ritual sacrifice and cultural norms can include having sex with children - but, on the larger point of creating a more perfect union through our shared humanity - viewing diversity as a strength rather than a weakness - again, the Democratic Party has been leading the way and actually GETTING THINGS DONE on this front for decades. So, I ask again, why a Socialist alternative when these are long-held Democratic principles that we should work towards together.

That doesn’t mean Democrats are Socialists - not at all. But, the diferences that exist are in practice, not principle. That the Socialists, in this country, have actually been a detriment to the principles for which they supposedly stand must be taken into consideration. The Democratic Party has a record of standing up for working people - that’s who we are, that’s what we do. Of course, we can always do better, but a faux-”extremist” alternative isn’t going to accomplish that.

Cut off your pinky and you have one less finger to work with - not a new and better hand.

A young man was about to finish his first year of college. Like so many others his age he considered himself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth. He felt deeply ashamed that his father was a rather staunch Republican which he expressed openly. One day he was challenging his father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich & the addition of more government welfare programs. Based on the lectures that he had participated in and the occasional chat with a professor he felt that for years his father had obviously harbored an evil, even selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his. The self professed objectivity proclaimed by his professors had to be the truth and he indicated so to his father.

He stopped him and asked him point blank, how he was doing in school. He answered rather haughtily that he had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That he studied all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people he knew. He didn’t even have time for a girlfriend and didn’t really have many college friends because of spending all his time studying.

His father listened and then asked, “How is your good friend John doing?”

He replied, “John is barely getting by.” He continued, “he barely has a 2.0 GPA,” adding, “and all he takes are easy classes and he never studies. But John is so very popular on campus, college for him is a blast, he goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn’t even show up for classes because he is too hung over.”

His father then asked his son, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0.” He continued, “That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.”

The son visibly shocked by his father’s suggestion angrily fired back, “That wouldn’t be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and John has done little or nothing, he played while I worked real hard!”

The father slowly smiled, winked and said, “Welcome to the Republican Party!”

If you’re going to tell people that should they become rich, society will take most of it away, why should they bother to try? Socialism has been a failure everywhere it’s been tried.

Certainly there are poor who are poor through no fault of their own but the thing to be wary of is that when society starts subsidizing poverty invariably more appears.

I for one am tired of supporting those who feel their “entitled” to a living at the expense of others and I positvely detest political movements that foster that belief.

It’s strictly between man and his maker how much or how little and who we choose to give the product of our sweat and blood. Anyone who won’t help those in need is a bastard in my book but there are those who milk the system and the terribly, terribly inept government is not able or even willing to weed them out.

You wouldn’t go to your wealthy neighbor’s house, ring the doorbell, stick a gun in his face and demand he “share the wealth” because he has more, would you? That’s robbery, isn’t it?

Why do you expect your government to do that for you?

It ain’t the government’s job to make us “better people.”

Life isn’t that simple lots of people work really hard only to be barley getting by. (myself included)

What is really telling about conservatives and their “values” , “morals” “relationship with GOD” is that for all of the outrage about poor people So Called milking the system, there seems to be none of that indignation directed at Corporations who do the same.

My faith in what is morally and socially just is what makes me a Democrat, unlike Cain in the Bible and a host of so called compassionate Conservatives I believe that I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER!

It is this belief that all Democrats have that have fueled some of the most innovative political and social ideas that have come not from the right but from Democrats.

It is wrong for any political philosophy to encourage people to expect others to pay for their mistakes and/or shortcomings.

If you feel you must help everyone who sticks out their hand expecting it to be filled regardless of merit, by all means do so.

But please do it with your own money. It pains me to pay for slacker lifestyles. I’ll pick n’ choose who I help.

I’m glad you like your Ayn Rand novels, but let’s stop tying to justify your lack of compassion as anything but pure, unbridled selfishness. As a member of a free democratic society, you incur any number of benefits. That you should likewise take on some basic responsibilities for the maintenance and advancement of this great society is certainly not asking too much. You may choose to confuse compassion for slavery and welfare for robbery, but while you drive public roads, attend public schools, drink treated water, and - yes - even use this thing called the Internet that was created with tax dollars….you’ll never be anything but a hypocrite and a selfish one at that.

Let me break it down for you. Where there is poverty there can be no justice. Where there is no justice there can be no freedom. Where there is no freedom there is no such thing as democracy. The very integrity of our way of life - of our principles as Americans - demands avenues that relieve extreme hardship and that provide people the opportunity to break the otherwise neverending cycle of poverty and despair. But, if you think this is accomplished by blood, sweat, and tears alone, you are sadly mistaken.

Public assistance is not charity. It is an investment in those in need and an act of faith in the idea that democracy works - the idea that a helping hand not only encourages the improvent of one’s own station but also provides the social and economic stability that allows America to thrive. You benefit from that stability and the far from universal prosperity that results. That you would rather free-load or even see this stability disappear is a sad comment on your personal character or, at least, your poorly developed political philosophy.

From your supposed philosophy, I trust that you believe Warren Buffett a far, far greater man than Jesus Christ. The son of a carpenter who lived off the kindness of others and spent his days in the streets with prostitutes, the sick, and the starving - who did he think he was to put his hands out and expect charity? For that matter, who did he think he was to die for your sins? Those were your sins, damn it…..he had no right to take them away. Of course, if you’re not a Christian, I apologize for using that example. From your comments, I sincerely hope that you’re not because, otherwise, you have REALLY missed the point. But, this is a free country - believe as you choose, no matter how backwards and unprincipled. And enjoy your worshipping at the altar of the Almight dollar!

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with a result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependency;
From dependency back into bondage.

The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic
Alexander Fraser Tyler (1748 - 1813)

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. -William J. H. Boetcker, 1916 (often attributed to Lincoln)

Self-reliance is the only road to true freedom, and being one’s own person is its ultimate reward. -Patricia Sampson

In the United States, doing good has come to be, like patriotism, a favorite device of persons with something to sell. - H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

Rand wasn’t the only one who got it right.

Is it more “moral” to offer a government program for all of life’s “booboo’s”, both big and small, and tell the recipient that someone else is paying for it and at the same time perhaps hinting strongly that the “booboo” should be blamed on the same one footing the bill for the “booboo” fix?

Or is it more “moral” to offer a mirror and gently explain that more often than not, both the cause and the fix for the “booboo” can be found in the mirror?

Without God, we cannot.
Without us, God will not.

My gripe is against those that are so haughty in their believe that people can make it all on their own.

No man is an island and even the uber rich didn’t become that way without connections and someone who took a genuine interest in them.

Again the concept of being your brothers keeper.

I don’t have numbers so any of you that do please feel free to provide a link but, I would guess that the amount of corporate welfare fare outnumbers that of public.

Oh and maybe if we actually got real about addressing poverty and the factors that contribute to it (one example funding NCLB) intsead of either giving lip service to the problem or worse putting the blame totally on the poor, then maybe we could get somehwere.

Lastly I don’t think we offer a governemnt program for all of lifes boo boos as you put it in fact if we got real about attacking some of our greatest problems at the federal level i.e. healthcare in america It would probably fix a lot of our other boo boos.

Let’s stop pandering completely to corporate interest and start getting back to being a government by the people for the people.

Giving handouts to corporations above citizens is just plain wrong and abandoning the least amonst its’ citizens in the guise of personall responsibilty while demonstrating none is hypocritcal at best, and cruel and inhumane at worst.

Be your brothers keeper!! Give a Damn about each other because it is the right and humane thing to do not because you expect some kind of pay off!!

this shows that among the very rich, there is almost no chance, no matter how hard you work, to be that rich, among the very poor, this is almost no chance, no matter how hard you work, to get to the middle class, and amond the middle and upper middle class there is a decent amount of relative mobility.

That still makes america better than pretty much any nation in the world
and I love our country for that
but I love our country enough to know we can do better Tim,
Democrats and Republicans alike believe that taxation is important in order to keep a gov’t going, no one wants to get rid of all taxation. And all but the most extremist conservatives, conservatives renounced most of the time by the GOP, agree that a basic social saftey net, a some basic programs that enrich and uplift, that help those born with little become those who can work hard to have more, need to exist. quality public education to ensure for our children, a safety net for our elderly such as social security, and more and more, some sort of way to make it easier for us to have health insurance when our jobs don’t provide it or we’re forced to take off work (often for health reasons ironically!).

So the only difference between all but the most extremist members of each party, on taxation, is who should be taxed, and how much. Democrats think those millionaires who were born with more and still have more should pay a bit more taxation, since they can afford it, since they have reaped the greatest benifits of America’s promise, as did their parents. Republicans think everyone should pay the same amount, that is to say the poor should pay a vastly disperportaionate amount of their income (which you addmitted earlier is not under their control when you talked about not everyone being able to be rich despite hard work like your father’s).

The humane, reasonable, and socially-sound and fair version is democratic
the selfish (as in bought and paid for by millionaires contributing to republicans, and buisness interess), the dangerous, and the unfair, often rasist version is the republican.

I would be for a flat tax on income. Everyone taxed the same, 20% of their income. I am willing to give 2 dimes out of each dollar in order to make sure my kids have a good school and my parents have a safe retirement and a roof over their heads. Republicans, well, they have shown that they are not.

if this were like your story I would now wink and say

“welcome to the democratic party, tim”

Should we help those less fortunate than ourselves? Certainly! We’re morally obligated to do so IMHO. I just don’t agree that the Federal government is the best choice to be the transfer agent is all. Too big, too corrupt and too inefficient. And again, I’m opposed to forced wealth redistribution in the first place. To me, that’s making life unfair for some in an attempt to make life “fair” for someone else.

George Washington once warned, “The Government, it cannot be said too often, can do nothing and can give nothing, which it has not taken from someone else.” (I can’t find my quote book right now, but I think that’s pretty close and it gets the idea across.)

I don’t mind paying taxes. It’s a necessary evil, just like government in general.

I’d just like to see more emphasis placed on the mirror, rather than Washington DC. Government should be a last resort, not a first resource.

By the year 2025 the entire federal budget will be consumed by Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security payments. Every last dime! Today, 1 in 3 Americans are insured by the Federal government. With the Baby Boomers beginning to retire, that number will surely go up.

Who’s going to pay for this? Not me, I’ll be retired and part of the problem. You youngsters had REALLY be careful about what you want out of your government. Who in their right mind is going to work when 50, 60, 70% of their paycheck goes to the government? But that’s the way we’re headed.

The government cannot and should not be all things to all people. There’s not enough money in the world.

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails.

What a patently redneck thing to say.
Of you (insert ethnicity or gender or political Bias her) Don’t like the way things are going why don’t you just leave this country. Why don’t you and every iother chicken shit chicken hawk go back to your country of orgin if you think that everyone else is so mixed up.

I’ll tell yoyu why becuse we are all americans and we all have a vested interest in mking this country work and just because I don’t agtee with how you would like tyo run things I wouldn’t dream of implying that you don’t belong here. This land belongs to all of Carl not just to those of us that wear our “patriotism” on our sleeves.

As for Iraq we are being a ” big help” if you think destabilizing the tegion, alienating our allies and causing a civik war is helping ; then yes I say Heckva job America.

The majority of the members of the supreme court would back me up on that, and have done so for a hundred years. Only scalia, maybe thomas, and who knows aobut the new two, would say otherwise.

my statement that the only economic difference between the two parties, whether constitutional or not is that the republicans tax the middle and lower classes, and the democrats tax the upper classes more, is completely true. Economic redistribution, whether distateful or not to you, has been an essentail part of what has allowed our middle class to flourish over the last 150 years ever since the income tax was passed and engrained economic redistribution into our system.

The numbers about millionaires being born of millionaires has been true every generation going back hundreds of years. Most millionaires today come from long long lines of millionaires.

It’s not “unfair” to ask that we tax a small amount of their unearned wealth in order to provide basic large-scale programs to help those trying to accrue earned wealth the means to do so. Public educaiton, city block grants, health insurance for orphans, these aren’t radical liberal things, they’re basic decency. Democrats fight for them, republicans say “let someone else do it”

But, would *you* sign a card for some moron that just admitted to stealing money from your company?!?