No outrage that the left by using two hot button issues have tottally hyjacked christianity.

P.S. Good job Robin on changing the subject.

Catholics can’t have it both ways. They can’t say no to birth control and then scream about murder when women have abortions. Much the same way Republican’s can’t scream about abortion but refuse to pay welfare for these kids.

I am a Democrat and Catholic. I think abortion is tragic. But we don’t get to run on about outlawing it until we have successfully prevented the need for it. An ouce of prevention is what is called for here.

There are 10 commandments and I am pretty sure the pope broke all of them when he decided to be a nazi. Don’t give me that they force him crap. Genocide is just as bad and likely worse than abortion. A truly pious man would have died before doing such a thing. NO excuses about how young he was either, most women having abortions are young and foolish too.

Did you just call Pope Pius XII a Nazi?
After the Holocaust, the Jews didn’t criticize the war time pope one bit. Why do you get to say anything?
Pinchas Lapide, Israel’s consul sad that Pius saved roughly 800,000 Jews from death camps through smuggling.

If Pope Pius XII did little, the other spiritual leaders of the world did nothing.

It’s WRONG to kill a child. You’d rather see an innocent child killed than have it born into poverty? No, there wouldn’t be a problem if society didn’t run wild sleeping with one another.

These women who are young should THINK before they act and think of the consequences about the fact that they could produce a child. These women who you are referring to should have more values and morals, especially if they are Catholic.

If a mother does have a child, then she should work like many women do to support the child. There are also MANY parents out in the world that would love to adopt a new baby. Newborns are highly demanded for adoption. I do know single mothers who refuse welfare and adopted their children because they want to prove that they don’t have to lower themselves to that degree and be on welfare.

The welfare system was and is NOT supposed to be a lifelong system a person stay’s on either. These people who sit at home and don’t work, we as taxpayers are tired of paying. Then they teach their kids that is ok to sit at home and suck money from the government! The Republicans don’t want to give money to people who are LAZY!

Pray that God forgives you Democrats who are pro abortion. It is MURDER DEMOCRATS!

No I was not calling Pius XII a Nazi. I was calling Pope Benedict XVI a nazi. Which he was.

In a perfect world all women would “think” before acting, unfortunately that isn’t always the case. As to your moral and values, I know a lot of people with morals and values who have unintended pregnancies. What I am saying is it isn’t moral to only care about children until they are born and then not worry about what happens to them after that.
As to your remarks about high demand for babies. Not really. There are hundreds of thousands of children who are adoptable and yet they are shuffled from foster home to foster home and pumped full of medication they don’t need because the more perscriptions they take the more money they are worth to the foster parents. I encourage you to work for state adminstered social services a couple of months and see what you think then.
I can also tell you that you have no experience with the welfare system or poverty. First of all poverty is not a moral failure. Perhaps you should pay closer attention at mass and think about what Christ had to say about dealing with the poor.
I will also share a story with you about a young woman I know. She had a child at 21. She was unmarried, is pro-choice and her choice was to have her child. Her child was born very ill. Although she had a “good” job and private insurance there were still several thousand dollars her insurance company would not cover. She turned to the state and asked them to subsidize the special formula her infant required (he could not be breast fed and the cost was more than $400 a month) The state said her 25K salary was too much money. The state encourged her to quit her job and then everything her child needed would be covered. She declined, worked two jobs and made it through. My point is there does need to be further welfare reform no doubt, but the system encourages dependence in this regard, so change the rules don’t be angry at those who are imprisoned by them.
By the way Clinton reformed welfare so you can’t get more than five years now anyway, so your remarks about it becoming a way of life is no longer valid. It’s not about Lazy. You think people like living in poverty? IF thats what you think poverty=lazy, I will be the one praying for you.

Daniel O

You don’t know me, so you can’t judge my amount of experience with this situation. As a matter a fact, I have a great deal of job and classroom experience related with this topic. Plus I am a Catholic. You and I both know that as Catholics we are taught that abortion is wrong! There’s no way around this FACT!

Perhaps you should pay A LOT of attention at church when and THINK about what the Ten Commandments “THOU SHALL NOT KILL.” You keep dodging the topic of murder and worry about poverty. Killing is A LOT worse than poverty! So, you’d rather have a child killed than allow it to be born into our society that can allow them to be a productive person?

Again, have morals, have values and think before you get in any situations and have to deal with this issue! If you have morals and values, you can abstain from this situation!

God will judge those who believe in abortion…..and I’ll be praying for your soul!

I agree wholeheartedly with your observation that poverty is not a matter of laziness, or moral failure. You state as much in the second paragraph of your Aug. 25 posting. The last sentence of that same paragraph is very important because it shows a few flaws in the logic of your argument.
We are talking about abortion, poverty and being Catholic.
We can start with being Catholic. As you say Jesus teaches us how to treat the poor. But you are mistaken if you think that Jesus limited his teaching to include only the financially destitue.
The poor that Jesus talks about are those who are unable to provide (not just material goods, but emotional, mental, spiritual goods included) for themselves. We as Catholics seek to help our brothers and sisters with ALL of their needs financial and otherwize.
Abortion as you can see is a flash point for Catholics because we see that a truly poor person- the child- can provide nothing for him/herself. The child has life; without any thought to the future cost or benifit to our society we must protect that life because it is in itself valuable enough to protect.
Crystal, you tried to set up a dicotomy between the Catholic stance on contraception and it’s stance on abortion. I assure you that no such problem exists. The Church is not “trying to have it both ways” by rejecting both contraception and abortion. It is promoting the sanctity of life in one cohesive and coherent outlook. The thought that rejecting contraception creates a “need” for abortion is truly misguided. There is never the “need” to eliminate an innocent person- even if that person is “undesired”.

Sorry but just one last note.
Daniel O. is right to suggest a need for education on the topic of Benedict XVI. Your history on this topic is very weak, and seems to be heavily influenced by mass media instead of fact.

Futhermore, if Roe v Wade is overturned, then the decision simply goes back to state legislatures. Thus, wealthier women would simply go to Massachusetts or New York………..states where there would be a right to abortion. If abortion is outlawed, then the result would be a rise in unsafe, back ally abortions. The number of abortions would remame high but would become dangerous.

I believe pro-choicers and pro-lifers could come together and find common ground. Abortions can be reduced by promoted contreptive, morning after pill, and comprehensive sex ed. This is better than criminalizing abortions.

Ricky, no one is for abortion. Overturning Roe will not decrease the abortion rate. I personally don’t like abortion; however, I believe it is very important to give the choice to a women, her doctor, her deity.

I will extend an olive branch to the catholic democrats by saying that I, like the catholic democrats, oppose the death penalty. I believe that there is room in the democratic party for those people who consider themselve pro-life. Moreover, most reasonable people agree that we can reduce the number of abortions by promoting adoption, providing better access to contraception including the morning after pill, and programs aimed at providing relief to single mothers.

Being pro-life is not incompatible with the Democratic Party. In fact I’d argue that Democrats are the only ones who have presented actual plans to stop abortion. Check out the Democrats for Life 95-10 Initiative; reducing the number of abortions by 95% in 10 years. I know some of you will say it should be 100%, but that is simply not realistic. Overturning Roe vs. Wade is not the solution. If that happens, rich women will go to states or countries that allow it and poor women will resort to back-alley abortions, or to their bathtubs with coathangers.

Ending abortion does not have a simple solution. The lives of women need to be improved, they need to be educated on how to prevent unwanted pregnancies. I think the Abstinence Plus programs are the way to go. Enforcing the fact that abstinence is the only way to be 100% safe, but also telling them about birth control. Most parents won’t talk about that with their kids, and if they did, maybe we wouldn’t have the problems we did. No matter how hard people may try, there is no way to legislate good parenting.