“It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word of—and the allegations—by people who were held in detention, people who hate America, people that had been trained in some instances to disassemble—that means not tell the truth.”
—Our Commander ‘N Chief on May 31, 2005 talking about a report from Amnesty International critical of U.S. detention facilities in Cuba, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Click here to see video of Bush’s comments. The Bushism is at 21:18.
The President said that “insurgents fear democracy.” I would argue that the same could be said for the radical Right and the Bush Administration.
Amnesty International is simply trying to make some left-wing donors happy by making up crap to make America look bad. Anyone comparing GITMO to a Gulag was apparently poorly educated and has no knowledge of history.
SGT E,
If that is really your rank. I find it very amusing to me that our government has hailed Amnesty reports in the past but now the reports are pandering to the left. The United States is quick to point out humna rights atrocities committed by others but pooh poohs any mention of wrongdoing on our part.
The quickest way to breed new terrorist is to turn a blind eye to your own wrongdoing. We should take the beam out of our own eye before we go about “spreading Democracy” to others.
Hey SGT E,
I bet that you were not critizing Amenesty International when Donald Rumsfeld and DOD were using Amenesty International reports while making the case for the invasion of Iraq. Amnesty International is a non-partisan organization. Futhermore, the items listed in Amenesty International’s lastest report (pertaining to Gitmo), had also been reported by other sources. I believe that the Gulag characterization is correct and that GITMO needs to be shut down; as Joe Biden has suggested needs to be done.
Also, I would appreciate if you would not come on this board and simply post talking points that are in line with those of Hannity and Limbaugh. Defending the procedures used at GITMO tells the rest of the world that America does not really follow the rule of law; when it comes to international treaties.
Look here you snot nosed ignorant punks. You do not question my integrity and accuse me of spouting talking points when you yourself are simply regurgitating the same rhetoric your Democrat masters are force feeding you. For your information I was a SGT (E-5) in the US Army and as a non-commissioned officer I led troops in Iraq. Your ignorance is apparent when you try to defend the Gulag comparison. The Soviet Gulags were forced labor camps used by the communists to make political enemies disappear and to keep the weak communist economy going. MILLIONS of people died in these camps. We have a few Hundred terrorists receiving three meals a day, medical care, and the best treatment that they deserve. As illegal enemy combatants they are not entitled to POW status or Geneva Conventions Protection, yet they are receiving many luxuries as though they were. We are extremely kind to our prisoners when you consider the fact that if you were captured by the people we are fighting they would slowly cut your head off and tape it for broadcast on a terrorist website. Amnesty Int’l has done good work in the past which makes these riddiculous claims even sadder. This once respectable organization has decided to lower itself and marginalize itself as a political entity. The fact is its leadership gave money to Kerry’s failed presidential campaign and gave $1,000 for Ted Kennedy’s most recent, although that wouldn’t even cover his bar tab. You should really take a good look in the mirror and decide what your priorities are. We cannot win a war by pandering to decidedly anti-American international organizations and the Euro-weenies that want to see the US weakened. P.S. I apologize for the opening to this post. I will attribute your knee-jerk attack on me to you being unaccustomed to considering dissenting opinions.
“This once respectable organization has decided to lower itself and marginalize itself as a political entity.” If a report supports your view, you say the organization is wonderful. But how dare they release a report that doesn’t agree with your point of view.
It is a fact that the Bush administration used Amnesty International reports to justify going to war with Iraq.
Go to
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml
and watch “The Sunshine Boys” video. Watch it all the way to the end.
“We cannot win a war by pandering to decidedly anti-American international organizations”
You may say that the Geneva Conventions does not extend to them, but I disagree. My question to you would be, what justifies a LEGAL enemy combatant. The traditional, soldier from a specific country? The fact is we are fighting a different kind of war here. Different war, different type of combatant. We have to set an example and be better than them, even if they don’t treat us the same. I don’t think Amnesty was “trying to make America look bad.” That statement seems a little childish.
Just because someone dissents, doesn’t mean they are unamerican. Amnesty is a HUMANITARIAN organization. They follow that agenda. What is so wrong with that? Am I somehow a bad person because I have passion for how my country is run? Am I unamerican because I don’t like saying someone is an “illegal enemy combatant” and they don’t deserve proper treatment? Am I unamerican because I disagree with the way the situation in Iraq is being handled? Rediculous. It hurts that you don’t even know me, but yet you make assumptions about me and groups I belong to just because you are threatened by dissent for some reason.
I care. I have passion. I have love. And I want peace. I am a democrat and proud of it!
Perhaps you would like to talk more with me? my aol messenger is avriel09, I look forward to more discussion with you, SGT_E.
Respectfully,
Abbey
I would just like to say that not all enlisted men and women agree with our foreign policy and that includes people that have been activated and those that have not. While I did not see combat, I did re enist in the army after 9/11 knowing full well what I was doing when I took the Oathe.
I did so because my country and this Administration made the American public believe we were going to war under false assumptions. Let’s face it they flat out lied. (see downing street minutes)
I love my country but I don’t love my country right or wrong! what makes us such a great country is that the voice of dissent is suppossed to have a voice. However, I see that voice being dimenished everyday. When we turn a blind eye to injustices being committed by our own against our “enemies” it will not be long before our government Committs those same injustices against its’ own citizens in the name of National Security.
My grandmother always told me two wrongs don’t make a right. Depriving people of human rights or passing our dirty laundry to other countries that have a healthier appetite for for human rights violations makes us no better than the terrorist. It is no wonder why internatioanl support for this war is fading.
This is truly a sad period in our history.
Firstly, I would like to respond to some of the allegations made by SGT E. I believe that the Gulag comment is not far off base when it has been reported that more than 100 prisoners have died at GITMO. Now you are correct when you say that the Soviet Gulags were more brutal than GITMO; however, the reports of torture and homicides at GITMO are not consistent with the beliefs of a country that stands for the rule of law and due process. Moreover, we cannot assume that every detainee at GITMO is a terrorist. Thus they need to be treated humanly. I will also remind you that most everything in the Amenesty International report has been corraberated by other media sources.
Secondly, I would like to thank you for the service and sacrifice you have given to this country. I have a brother who has done a tour in Iraq and hence I believe that is important that all critisms should be aimed at our politicians and civilian military leadership…….not our fighting men and women.
Thirdly, you refer to the “Euro Weenies” that are undermining our efforts to win the war. In my opinion, this war cannot be won as any guerilla war cannot be won. In Iraq, we cannot distinguish our enenies from friends. We do not have enough troops to stabilize the country for the upcoming years. We do not have the money to be seeking out wars; especially against countries that do not pose a threat to the U.S. or had ties to 9-11(As Iraq had NO WMDS and NO connections to Al Queda). We do not have the resources to morph 3000-year-old civilizations into democracies. It is not just liberal democrats that are saying this; but also noted conservatives such as Gen. Tony McPeak, William F. Buckly, Pat Buchanon, Tucker Carlson, and more. The invasion of Iraq was a tacticle blunder.
Also, on your website, you smeared John Kerry by posted a article by the extreme Right Winger Jeff Jacoby. It may surprise you that John Kerry offered an ammendment to a spending bill that WOULD INCREASE DEATH BENEFITS FOR NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS TO 100,000$$. That amendment failed because ever Republican voted against it. That is why I laugh my ass off when I hear the phrase “Republicans support the troops”. THATS HOGWASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
READ THIS: http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/
Adam,
thank you for your comments and for posting the Memo. I called it minutes because that is actually a more accurate discription of what the document is. I too believe that you can support the troops but opposse this administration. I am so glad that you made that distinction because the Republicans have done a stellar job in making us look anti troops.
If people only new the number of regular army enlisted families that have to apply for food stamps just to get buy they would be ashamed of the lip service that the GOP pays to our enlisted and the lack of action.
Bottom line is you have been saying what I have said all along Guerilla War is a difficult type of war to fight for this fact alone this administration should be putting its’ money where its chicken hawk mouth is.
Please excuse my spelling it is hard to control myself once I get on a rant. I don’t touch type either. Danielle are you also attending YDA’s convention in Aug?
I will respond to as much of this rubbish as I can. It has been a while since I have decided to stir up a liberal snakepit. First and foremost let me make myself clear that no political party speaks for me. I am no fan of the Republicans, but the activity coming out of the Democrats in Washington is shameful.
Go read the Geneva Conventions. They apply only to the uniformed armies of actual nations with borders. The terrorists we are fighting do not wear uniforms. The cowards hide among civilians disguised as women and shield themselves with children. They do not belong to a nation. They are radical Islamic extremists. This poisoned branch of Islam we are fighting today is the same strain that for a thousand years has tried to convert or destroy all they deem to be infidels. Actually under the Geneva Conventions we are allowed to shoot these people on sight because they fall under the same framework as spies and illegal combatants.
Somebody said Iraq had no ties to Al-Qaeda. That is a fallacy spread by our incompetent mainstream media. Zarquowi, the chief terrorist operative in Iraq was one of Osama’s goons. Zarquowi was wounded in Afganistan when we were routing the Taliban. He fled to Iraq where he was given safe haven and treated at a hospital run by Uday Hussein. As for WMD’s, that is something only time can tell. They may be buried under Iraqi sand and will not be discovered for decades. They could be in Syria or Bekka Valley. There is far too much conflicting evidence and I have run over this so many times with air headed liberals posting in MSN Slate Magazine Fray that I really do not care to rehash it. Either way the CIA under George Tenet, who was Clinton’s guy by the way, blew it. They missed 9-11, they bungled the WMD intelligence, and they failed to adequately analyze the temperament on the ground in Iraq
Amnesty should go seek actual human rights abuses to uncover. Any wrongdoing by American soldiers is immediately taken care of by the military and the people involved are punished. For example, the so called Abu Ghraib scandal the liberals love to bring up was already handle by the US Army months before the MSM supposedly “broke” the story and went on their unprofeesional and irresponsible rampage trying to pound the story as hard as they could to hurt Bush during the election. The unit assigned to the prison was immediately relieved when news of these incidents made it to proper command levels and the people involved were immediately questioned and investigated. To this day I have not been shown a single shred of evidence to convince me of widespread abuses by American forces. There are only allegations by prisoners. Prisoners who know exactly what to say to incite and inflame the Muslim world. Where is the outrage at FDR for his interment camps? Your greatest president is guilty of far worse than you could ever blame this administration for. When the insurgents in post WWII Germany attacked US troops they were drug out into the street and shot along with anyone who helped them. Your problem is you lack the context of history. Not neccessarily your fault as our government schools are a joke and the media refuses to do its job. War is not pretty, no matter how hard we try to accommodate the feelings of others. The fact remains that we are treating Muslim terrorist prisoners with far more respect and regard than any one of them would show you. Where is Amnesty International’s comdemnation of the Islamo-facist scumbags who are cutting people’s head off?
Just for the record by the way, we are winning the war in Iraq. Just because the only news you get is filtered through the “if it bleeds it leads” ratings and liberal bias mentality of the major media does not mean you know what is happening on the ground there. That region is seeing more hope and progress right now than ever before.
the geneva convention goes out of its way to NOT only apply to uniformed soldiers. moreover, even if it did only apply to uniformed soldiers, that would make most people in gitmo still count because they were uniformed soldiers of the taliban, you know, the govornment Bush negotiated with and was giving international aid to in 00 and 01.
amnesty and the red cross both documented abuses at abu g. even AFTER the story had broken on several news agencies. infact, the red cross found abuses even as the last prisoners were being corralled out of there so they could be moved to a place the red cross and amnesty had no access to and abu g could be torn down. so no the army was not taking care of it.
it was liberals who condemned the war ferver of the 4th FDR administration, and conservatives who defended it. note too, that FDR wasn’t exactly responsible for most of the things going on right then, as he was sick, fighting wwii, and abdicating most of his responsibilities to homefront generals. but when things did go wrong (human rights abuses) it was liberals who spoke out. oh yeah, and liberals who finally got the gov. to admit wrongdoing. and liberals like Teddy K. from liberal mass. who got compensation to those surviving japanease-americans.
etc etc
time after time you are just wrong. please leave our website and do not return, you add nothing to this discussion, but insult us and our inteligence.
It is amusing that you only want to believe what you want to believe and hear what you want to hear. I guess I am the only person interested in different points of view. Not surprising I suppose. Most liberals I have debated have been surprisingly closed-minded. You are no different. I was wrong in assuming that Democrats from a Midwestern state would have any more common sense or even a mind of their own. While I am good friends with several registered Democrats, they at least speak their own mind and realize that their party is getting hijacked by the far left. True liberalism is okay. It has championed many worthy causes and helped many people. It is the fringe left-wing elements of liberalism that are dangerous. The people out there trying to undermine the war and our military are the ones I have a problem with. Extremism in any form is dangerous. Right now the two greatest threats to this country are Islamo-facist extremists and far left extremists who either hate America or want to see it turn to socialism. You need to make sure your zealotry for certain political causes and your hatred for anyone you deem “Conservative” do not consume you. Liberals preach against hatred. Why then do you hate everyone with a Conservative viewpoint?
First-What liberal bias in the media?
Second-We have listened to you. Are your posts deleted? NO. But I think we are allowed to contribute our opinions to the conversation if you can. Get used to it. But don’t you DARE forget that there are Conservative extremists out there too.
If you want to say the war is going well, that is your opinion. But what I see is that we are losing americans out there just like my husband and I want to make sure it is being done correctly and for the right reasons.
Also, you called us a snakepit. We are a student organization at UNO that just happens to have a blog. As college students, we are used to arguing our points and having good discussion.
We do a lot for our community and our country. Think before you fling insults.
Yes, but the Conservative extremists are not a threat at this time. They are not as well funded or organized right now, and they are not trying to undermine our troops. I don’t fling insults unless I see one flung. You didn’t do it. It was the jackass that said “SGT_E if that’s your real rank” blah, blah, blah. I’ve been called worse. This isn’t a liberal snakepit. MSN Slate Mag Fray and Nerofiddled are liberal snakepits. You wouldn’t believe some of the nasty things I was called after pointing out people’s inaccuracies and hypocrisy. If you don’t want to admit that there is a clear and distinct liberal bias in the media, fine that’s your problem. It is not as bad as it once was with the new media on the radio, cable, and internet but it is still there. A lot of it is left overs from the 1960’s anti-war nutjob reporters that caused the Vietnam Veterans such heartache. Much of the media’s problem, however, cannot be traced to bias, but instead to gross incompetence as was the case with 60 minutes and Newsweek’s latest failure. Local media outlets, for instance are not generally biased, they are just incompetent. The bias during the election cycle was obvious and blatant. To say that there is no bias is silly. At least the talk radio and bloggers on the right will immediately come out and tell you: “hey this is my point of view.” They do not hide it. The MSM needs to just come out and say “yeah, we biased” and stop pretending not to be. The war is going very well by the way. http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
first of all SGt I challenged your rank little lowly old Spc. 4 me Robin. Your attitude and the way you post on this blog is behavior unbecoming of a non commissioned officer. That Is way I questioned whether you were really enlisted or not.
However, I did not resort to calling you a jackass which you are most certainly acting like right now. I would say it is you who do not want honest debate you just want everyone to sit back and agree with everything the right has to say about anything that matters in this country.
Well guess what there are some of us who aren’t drinking the kool-aid some of go and research the issues for ourselves.
As a student in Broadcasting for YEARS, I can tell you that there is not in fact, an overarching liberal bias in the media. I’m not denying that there are not some liberally-biased reporters. But there is also Fox news, which calls itself balanced, but is blatently conservative. MEDIA is a plural word, you can’t lump them all together.
You see the funny thing is, the press didn’t used to be considered to be required to be centrist. You can trace this back to the Revolutionary War, the foundation of the US journalism. Thomas Jefferson and many other journalists of the time largely printed heresay and their own opinion in their papers. Journalists and their organizations have always had their political views, which is why the practice of papers endorsing candidates and the like still goes on.
It is the responsibility of the consumer of news to differentiate where the news is coming from. The ethical issue is when news outlets pretend to be un-biased (which is impossible) to the point of decieving people. If you really can’t trust them, you might try reading only stories from the AP wire and Reuters. But I choose to extend my infomation sometimes, knowing what I take in is from a journalist who tries HARD to be accurate and fair.
As someone who intends to go into a field working with journalism, I say this: I know people like to think of journalists and the media as scumbags, but its really not like that. Most people try very hard to at least give some information that the reader/viewer can use. Sometimes they make mistakes, but I believe Newsweek believed what they printed. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have risked losing readers and advertisers just because it pissed people off. They also called the gov’t. before the story was printed to verify their source. They were either misinformed by sources or blatently lied to. There were unfortunate events in the aftermath, but it certainly wasn’t the intent of the article.
I’m going to step off my soapbox now, and I hope you will do the same. You know some things, and I know others. The media is what I know.
I don’t watch a lot of the TV news, but I bet you can’t find ONE example of biased reporting from Fox News in any of their actual NEWS broadcasts, not opinion shows. Hannity, O’Reilly, etc. are OPINION shows and they make that very clear. If the old “legacy” media wants to maintain their liberal bias then that’s fine. I just don’t want them to make people think they are objective when they are truly not. Fine, be biased but make sure everyone knows that you are reporting the news based on your opinion. Right now CBS, ABC, CNN, etc. are pretending to be objective outlets when they are clearly not and anyone with enough intelligence, that is paying attention, can see that. I don’t care too much for Fox News or any other televised news stations so I am indifferent. You hate Fox news because it is the only TV network that represents a Conservative viewpoint and does not belittle Conservatives or people of faith. There are many documented cases in which other networks have clearly sought to belittle Conservatives on their networks. I did not pay attention to the news or politics unitl I returned from Iraq and saw the bias and irresponsible media coverage of the war. In many cases I saw blatant disrespect shown towards US troops fighting so that there can be freedom of speech and the press. I was an objective observer and I saw a media out of control. As for Newsweek and CBS: I am sure that it was a mistake on their part to go forward with their phony stories, but it was their zeal to show the US military and/or the current administration in a negative light that compelled them to ignore their own journalistic standards and go forward with a story they could not confirm. Like I said, the old media is not only biased, but also incompetent.
Face SGT_E liberals think what they want to think and say what they want to say and it is always right because they are so much smarter than us. The “right” wing crazies who “drink” the kool-aide and blindly follow the president and his “evil” sneaky plans of destroying the world. We should not even debate these people because they are so close minded and ignorant it makes me sick. I think of democrats like Sen. Exon and my grandfather and Sen. Nelson. I think to myself when did the democratic party get hijacked by left wing extremist like Ted kennedy and Tom Daschle. I hope something happens because the democratic party never used to be like this. It shows on the national level and the state level if you look at the last couple elections. There is no way any democrat should of lost this election with all the BS going on in the media “Farenheit 911″ etc. I really do hope that normal democrats will take back there party and return to common sense. This country will be way better off. Check out Zell Millers speech a Democrat senator from Georgia http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/convention.asp?Cat=Special_Topic&Code=GOP&Rot_Cat_CD=GOP
Zell Miller is a crazy person.
Quote: “Face SGT_E liberals think what they want to think and say what they want to say and it is always right because they are so much smarter than us. The “right” wing crazies who “drink” the kool-aide and blindly follow the president and his “evil” sneaky plans of destroying the world. We should not even debate these people because they are so close minded and ignorant it makes me sick.”
You’re right I am smarter than you Joe.
And if you don’t want to debate, don’t come here (which you obviously can’t stop yourself from doing).
SGT E- I’m not even going to discuss it anymore because both of us have opposing opinions and can not be moved. But one more thing: As a journalist, as a spouse of an airman, and as a student who has always been against the war, I don’t know where you’re getting all this. I oppose the war, but yet I understand the military has orders to follow and they are just doing their jobs. They do an excellent job, and it is an incerdible sacrifice. I think you are paranoid when you say CNN or CBS or any other network wants to make soldiers look bad. Rediculous.
But I will NOT turn a blind eye to the wrongdoings of this administration. If you can’t see that, well, you’re not as reasonable or objective as you think you are.
Did you watch the speech by Zell Miller. Once again Abbey you can’t argue me cause your just simply wrong. Watch the Zell Miller speech and then talk to me.
No, no… Zell Miller is crazy. Oh… and glad you’re back Joe. Your comments are so convenient, in fact, now that you’re back, I won’t even have to listen to Michael Savage to get my daily dose of insolent, fascist-Republican scat. Yay for Joe! Oh… and how’s your 3.8 gpa?
It’s good thanks for asking.
I thought Joe dropped out of UNO a long time ago. It must be true because I read it on the Chamber Board.
Funny how quickly democrats eat their own. Zell was not crazy until he pointed out the failure of the current democratic party.
He is not crazy. He just dissagrees with the current dems in power. But I guess to the democrats that makes him crazy. Zell Miller is a former Lt. Gov, Gov, and Senator from Georgia. Ever heard of a man named James Carville is he crazy. Carville ran numerous campaigns for Zell Miller. Zell Miller also spoke at the democratic national convention in 1992 on behalf of Bill Clinton. So can you explain to me why you guys think he’s crazy and not a “true” democrat. Or is it that you guys are crazy and he is a normal democrat.
Zell Miller is not a democrat.
Zell Miller is as much of a Democrat as Ben Nelson…… Just Barely.
For most of his comments, I agree with SGT E; Amnesty International even had to back-track their statement regarding the term ‘gulag’. It was indeed a very poor choice of words, and it distracts from the real issues going on.
The prisoners are being treated very well. Interigation is a legal right, by any means you want to call it. Even the Geneva Convention agrees. We do not give them the ‘legal’ definition, of a POW for the fact, that they are not. They are legally ‘enemy combantants’. Their is no difference in treatmeant. Both legal prisonors can be interegated.
No one is being tortored. That is the hype that is going around. Being forced to look at naked women and listening to bad music is not ‘deemed’ torture. It is a shame and sad to think that torture and abuse now means touching their holy book in an inapproriate manner.
Both sides are misusing and abusing the situation. And both are trying to fix their mistakes, even though both sides will not admit it, exactly, they try to word themselves around, trying to explain things, rather then admit anything.
Gitmo is a prison, it does interegation, it is not a death or torture camp. That is the definition of a ‘gulag’.
Amensty Int. is trying to get as much information out of the area as it can, to try and see if there is any abuse, since so far none, if few, have actually been reported.
They are trying to be good, by making sure we are the humane people we all believe we are.
The admin. is not very forth-telling of anything - until it is confronted about allegations or lies to the contray, just because everyone wants a headline for a story.
And to go back to the Geneva Convention, why is it so important to give them POW status, when they are not. - Change it, if needed, but until then, it does not apply. They still (i believe) are not being tortured…. Isn’t that the only important question?
I do believe that if any abuses to occur they will be found, and so fare, it looks like we have been doing a good job at it, and they will be taken care of. But to make abuses up, just to see if their are any, is wrong.
As long as there is not torture, any other means of interegation, I see is fit to go.
Especially, if it gets us answers, and it seems like it is.
To Abbey, or rather Tony C. Zell Miller is not crazy nor to the same neither is Howard Dean.
Dean may not be a middle person, nor does any more claim to be. Mr. Miller also speaks his mind, with a “little” flare. Bumbling of words happen. It makes for good news, at least the junkies think so. But ridiculing others is never a great tactic.
Both do harm and good for their party. The democrats are losing their ‘heart’. I do seem them leaning towards more of a ‘Socailist’ party. They do need to find those that can speak out for their causes, while not making fun of the other side. Dean did, and they paid for it. Kerry tried to be on both sides, it was not his voting habit or anything else that got people to not vote for him, he did it to himself by trying to talk from both ends. It did not work, he could not communicate well with the people.
Not to say that G.W.Bush is any of articulate, but still….he deals with people on a level they like, and not to demean them.
Both sides need work. Republicans are leaning more towards to a religious party. That I do not like. While the Democrats are leaning more towards a religious hating party. That I hate more.
Where does one choose? It is never simple. And it is never a one issue choice; even if the media thinks so.
Dubya does NOT deal with people on a level that they like. That’s a very broad statement. According to recent reports he is just barely dealing with much less than 50% of us on a level that we “like.” And this particular democrat does not hate religion. I do however have grave concerns about organized religion’s bias and self righteous attitudes. Dubya may have pulled off this election due to the moral minority but believe me they are overreaching and the general public is pulling back…especially after Dubya’s involvement in the Schiavo case. The democrats shouldn’t be moving more to the right, but rather they should stand further on the left and grow some nards.
I agree the democrats should move farther to the left. Keep moving to the left and you guy are going to start winning elections. Keep it up guys.
Haha.
I agree with Joe. Please keep moving left. Then maybe the far left will go away after they lose every election. Neither party represents me. I am forced to go with the lesser of two evils so Republican it is. Maybe after the Democrats implode and splinter into two or more parties, a viable third option will materialize that may actually represent the people in this country. Some elements of the Republicans represent an extreme right view, but all of the current Democratic leadership is pandering to the extreme far left. Until moderate Democrats win back control of their party the donkey is in danger of becoming extinct.
What makes us the extreme far left?
Protecting a women’s right to chose what to do with her body?
Seeing that throughout histroy war has been an evil to be avoided and not saught out?
Thinking that social programs like social security, with clear track records of success, should be left intact?
Wanting judges who remind us of Thurgood Marshal on the bench?
Thinking public education is the cornerstone of what created the great american middle class? (and should protect and strengthen it!)
thinking nations should work together to prevent wars and poverty?
Thinking that progressive taxes, (the type that johnson, fdr, and truman used to cut poverty in half) are better than regressive taxes (the ones that reagan and bush are proving lead to vast deficits and increased riches for the rich and poverty for the poor)?
those are the cornerstones of what it means to be an extreme liberal democrat. Most of those positions are actually vastly more liberal than Daschle or Clinton or even Kerry.
Do any of those sound extremist? No. Because they aren’t. They’re rooted in american hitory and values.
And yet, the cornerstones of modern republicans (like Delay, Frist, Bush and Scalia) include preemtive voluntary military actions, extreme regressive taxation. Shifting tax burdens onto work and away from wealth. Eliminatin taxes are excess (like capitol gains taxes) and instiuting taxes on neccesity (like on food). Making abortion 100
illigal, fighting access to birth control, rewriting history books to gloss over the tragedies of the past (which i’d like to point out makes it hard not to repeat them), unprecedented govt access to private lives and information, unprecedented expansion of the police state, state sanctioning of religion, specifically extreme conservative christianity, removing the teaching of accepted science (evolition) from classrooms, replacing it with neo-theological pseudoscience equivilant to flat earth theories in the 1800s. WTF! these are extremists. And they’re not even the most extreme ones in their party! Look at the Tom Coburns and Mel Martinez’s who go farther and embrace eliminating the income tax, adding christian prayer to school days, and letting teachers prostelatize in public school!
The party of extremists is the gop.
that was one hundred percent illigal, if you didn’t notice.
What I see as the “far left” is taxation without repersentation attitude of some democrats. And yes, sometimes I do generalize my statements, sometimes by mistake, sometimes to try to make a point. We may be a great power, and yes power come with responsibility, but where does that responsibility stop?
Even a parent, which now I finally am one, comes with responsibility. But there is always a time where that responsibility ends.
We do have the obligation to help others, but how far, and to what extent? Evey nation wants us to go deeper and deeper into our pockets to pay for their problems. And we are not just talking about poor nations. We give billions to countries like Germany, France, Italy, Japan, for bases and ‘bribes’ so that we can have influence, etc over there.
They like our money, but then they tell us to go shove off, when we speak our minds.
We give billions of aid to poor nations of corrupt (and non-corrupt) nations, and we are deamed ’stupid’ and un-human because we want - no demand - that we know where the money is going, so the aid actually reaches its people.
That is what happened in Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Ethopia, you name it - Look what happened there.
I am all for my tax dollars going to aid people, but sometimes enough is enough. And that includes people that commit crimes in this nation, that are not citizens of this nation.
I am far from being a racist. I hate being called a racist, just because I fell that we pay too much to care for people commit crimes.
I was all for Nafta, I really did think that it would bring jobs down to Mexico, even if that mean US jobs to be cut…. so that there would be a Mexico state that was stable and less corupt, where they would not feel the need to come up here.
I am all for them coming, but sometimes I feel enough can be enough.
Democrats should be for immigration. Republicans should be for immigration. But what I see the party saying, let all come here, we wont care, we will pay for way through life.
Chad W.,
We spend less than 1% of our budget on foreign aid .16 to be exact. I here republicans quoting the bible right and left. charcaterizing Dems as Godless hedions but the bible says
Matthew 25:31-46 in particular verse 40
and the King shall answer and say unto them, Verly I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethen, ye have done it unto me.
I am also a parent a parent who is rasing her children to be compassionate human beings. My twelve year old can’t wait to be an official memeber of Young Democrats of America.
I say all of that to say this, I teach my children that we are our brothers keeper. We may not want to be. We may not even think that it is fair but if we don’t help then we will pay for it later.
To whom much is given much is required.
I am also wondering this what exactly is this taxation without represenatation you keep referring to ?
The GOP forgets that they won the election with 52% of the vote. Keep it in mind. 52% is NOT a mandate. You may want us to move further to the left and that’s OK cause I want the GOP to keep moving farther to the right. Keep shoving organized religion down our throats and keep up the corporate welfare at the expense of the middle class. Continue to creep into our private lives. Keep overreaching and by the time 2008 rolls around the nation just could be ready for the first female president.
I like to see people back things up with facts and links (keeps us in reality-world), so could some conservative give me a link to a study or website that shows why we’re spending too much on aid in america? Cause i bet you can’t find that site.
Studies over the last 10 years have found that americans think we spend too much on aid, and then when told how much we really spend, say that it is an acceptable amount. The average over-guess is somewhere usually around a factor of 15! as in most people say we spend 15, and that that’s about twice what we really should spend (7 or 8 percent say most people). But in reality its less than 1, which is obviously seven or eight times less than what people think would be fine. Moreover, republicans are much more likely to a) think we should spend less and b) overestimate how much we spend. With the average republican guessing about 20 percent, and saying we should spend less than 5.
(heres a study from ‘95 till ‘05: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/BFW/introduction.html )
people also don’t realise that the vast majority of ”aid” is actually going to military operations. Almost 1/3 of our “humanitarian aid” in south america last year, actually was used to buy military equipment for the oppressive regime in columbia which america has been propping up for many years against rebels. Do i like those rebels? No. Should we be propping up an equally bad (or really much worse) gov’t? No. Do we get to call doing so in our own best interest humanitarian aid? Strangely yes.
The aid we tried to give to brazil to fight aids was so full of strings attached that they decided in brazil that they were better off wihout it and turned it down (see in the real world we know that condoms are actually good for fighting aids, and abstinance only education has a proven track record of failure.)
Of the 15 billion in aids money we pledged to give just before the iraq war, (The Presidents Emergency Plan to Send Aids Relift or PEPFAR or something like that) less than 400 million has even showed up yet, and no money was allocated until over 18 months after it was announced (not a very urgent emergency I guess). Readr about it in last months issue of Rolling Stone, if you want a good concise history of Bush’s allocation of funds to fight aids. I think the original story came from the post or something, but rolling stone reprinted it.
And if all of that doesn’t explain to you that, at the very least, it’s certainly not extremist to think we should spend a little more money on foreign aid (75 percent of americans think 1 percent is “way too little”).
So try again. Tell me some other reason why I’m part of the “extremist left” how I’m “hurting america” how I’m “spurting talking points” “can’t think for myself” “have no facts to support myself” or how my “extremist left” is out of touch with americans and dangerous.
the only extremists with politcal sway in the realm of aid are A) the extrmist christians who’s warped view on the bible is being enforced as public policy shutting down our aid to women’s clinics, rape prevention centers, and helping aids spread. and B) the extremist republicans like orin hatch, and lee terry who think we should cut off all but “christian foreign aid” and stop sending any money to most countries. (I once heard lee terry give a talk where he couldn’t shut up about ‘’spending american money only in america only for americans).
but us on the left, we’re not extremists.
I was just reading stuff online and found this article from toay’s “salon” webpage (a pretty decent news portal). I had to mention it:
“GOP-led panel slashes foreign aid program”
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2005/06/16/foreign_aid/index.html
here’s a key quote:
“The initiative announced by Bush in 2002 has been slow to get off the ground, and projects have been approved for just four countries. Presidents of five African nations said in a meeting this week with Bush that bureaucratic bottlenecks made it nearly impossible to access the aid.
Overall, lawmakers are proposing only a tiny increase in U.S. foreign aid in the coming budget year…:
Yes, I do think that we spend too much of ‘government’ money to aid other computers. And yes 1% of US GDP goes to this aid, but how much does this really relate to in dollars? Billions on top of billions of dollars. It is no crapy millions that other countries give. Which may be much more of their GDP, but they also take from their citizens 50% in taxes or more. We are lucky, I am lucky that I pay 20%-%30% in taxes.
What people forget to mention is that the US is the most generous country there is in private aid. Those #’s practically match what the government spends in aid, contracts, subsidies, etc etc etc.
Why doesnt anyone talk about that? We give out lots of money to other countries and helpful organizations, here and abroad. (we do - not alot, but what/when/where we can)
But why cant we, as citizens decide where the money goes, rather then the government which we know cant do anything right.
That is where my lack of repersentation comes in. I do not get to decide where my tax dollars go. Because if I did, it certainly would not be to some places.
And no, I do not have a lot of time to go around searching one way or another to find out, if we truly are giving out too much aid. I just feel we are being under-appreciated for what we do give out, no one cares about how much we really do spend, via government aid and private aid.
They only want more. And so little of it, now, goes to where it needs to, corruption is rampid. And no one cares about or talks about that.
Right….the democrats are the clear thinking level headed party. Which is why everyone went on ranting like extremists after I mentioned the democratic party has been hijacked by extremists. Thanks for proving my point. As I said, both parties pander to their base. The difference is the GOP’s base is a vast majority of the regular folks who go to church, support the military, and just want to live their lives with the least possible amount of government interference. The left-wing base includes socialists, various special interest lobbyists (planned parenthood, sierra, etc. etc.), and people who hate this country (i.e. George Soros, Michael Moore and his ilk, etc.). Now before I set you off on another rant…NO I do not think all democrats hate America. I do not think you hate America, unless you start trying to defend Moore’s nonsense. Most dems like America, they just see things differently which is fine.
I am not represented in either party very well. There are a few democrats I like, there are republicans I like. As for taxes: it is the Fair Tax Plan which helps the poor, creates jobs, and makes the USA the best place in the world to do business. It only hurts the IRS, Washington lobbyists, lawyers, and certain politicians using the current tax code to their own benefit.
Legalizing abortion for minor girls without parental consent is pretty extreme left. Minor kids cant have tylenol at school without parental consent but yet they want minors to be able to have abortions without parental consent. And we had a guy who was a seroius candidate for president who believed in that. Come on guys that is why you are labeled the far left extreme. Zell Miller Ben Nelson even your minority leader Harry Reid is prolife. Those are men with whom I can respect well except harry reid who is turning into a extremist with power. Do you think JFK, LBJ, Harry Truman, Jimmy Carter even Bill Clinton would ever be for that kind of law. You need to go back to common sense values of the democratic party. Those democrats would be ashamed of the democratic party of today.
Oh and if you guys want to sound unbiased on these threads dont say “hey check out this website for proof for what I argue” when it is a totally biased liberal website. It justs sounds silly and rediculous. You guys are sneakier than that.
Joe,
You can misrepresent what pro-choice means all you want. The problem with parental consent laws is the following……..How do you expect a minor who has been raped by her father to get parental consent? I am getting sick of you people misrepresenting this issue. Also, pro-choice is not pro-abortion. You conservatives always try to get progressives to defend abortion. Progressives believe that women should be able to make their own decisions concerning their health.
Also, there has been no help from the conservatives to reduce the number of abortions. Harry Reid, a democrat who you praised for being “pro-life”, has introduced a bill that would make contraception (including the morning after pill more available) more available; hence reducing the amount of abortions. Yet conservatives block such legislations. The way to reduce abortions is to reduce unwanted pregnancies. Which also means we need comprehensive sex education in high school and more prenatel funding for poor women.
Joe, I would appreciate you not coming in hear and spewing Hannity talking points.
Once again shows close minded ignorance by the democrats. Conservatives do support how to reduce the numbers of abortions. We support abstinence programs which teaches responsibility. I love how “progressives” aka liberals talk about rape and incest as the number one reason why a person will have a an abortion. But you and I both no thats not the main reason people go in for abortions. Adam I would appreciate it if you quit coming in here and just make up complete lies to defend your points of view. Please quit spewing your hatred of the conservatives with Al Franken ideology.
I’d love to see where liberals say rape and incest are the number one reason why a person has an abortion. I’d love to see where adam said that above. Joe, the fact is you made that up. Actually, poverty is the number one reason why women have abortions. What have Republicans done about that? Not a whole lot.
Most democrats support abstinence programs but not abstinence only programs. I was taught when you want to change something, you fix the problem not the symptom. Republicans want to fix the symptom not the problem. Once again Joe you show your close minded ignorance by spewing right-wing rheteroic with no facts.
haha Chief I love your twisting of the facts. I must admit liberals or progressives as you call it, cause your ashamed of the liberal label are number one at twisting the facts and squirming out tough questions. Cheif your my boy or girl though. Keep it up.
The prolife faction seems to believe that if abortions are outlawed then every couple who desires one will have a perfect pink baby to raise. No one will want babies who aren’t perfect and pink of course, including the prolifers. It’s time to put up or shut up unless every prolife household wants to take on a crack baby with multiple handicaps. What happens to them is inconsequential as many prolifers concern seems to end at the moment of birth. No one likes abortions - we all agree that we need many less of them but historically women will always find a way to control their own pregnancies.
I had a friend on staff at the Med Center many years ago who also had a private clinic where abortions were performed. He was snubbed by many of the other med center docs. One night he got a call from his biggest critic after his own 16 year old daughter had gotten into “trouble.” Abortions will always be accessible to middle and upper class - its the poor who will be left dangling in the wind.
Friends of mine had tried for years to conceive and when they did an amniocentesis showed anencephaly in the second trimester. Their wonderful options were to carry the baby to term and deliver with the knowledge that the infant would die that day or to abort. They faced the protesters outside of the clinic and to this day are angry about it. These zealots holding signs knew nothing of their situation, or anyone elses for that matter.
I don’t like abortions. I didn’t like having mine but I was poor, still in college, and the father had a child from his previous marriage who was dying of cystic fibrosis. (Ever hear a child cough in the middle of the night with cystic fibrosis?) And I hadn’t been careless - I was on the pill and had gotten pregnant. There is no doubt in my mind that I would have sought a back alley abortion and might very well have died from it. There are any myriad of reasons that people seek abortions - I can’t in a million years imagine making that decision for someone else. Unfortunately many of the white rich males making up our congress would have it otherwise.
LOL. See again you know as well as I do that abortions are going to be legal for ever for reasons such as rape, incest and mothers life. But you keep avoiding the biggest reason people have abortions. People are very irresponsible when it comes to sex. That is the biggest reason why people have abortions and that is one of the top reasons why they have an abortion. Yes I know it is easy to use the rape, incest, or mother’s life excuse. But fact of the matter is people have abortions and kill perfectly healthy babies for social and selfish reasons. I agree there should be abortions for people who have been raped and incest or mothers life. But you know as well as I do that is a very small percentage. Let’s start teaching responsibility not way’s of getting out of a jam because you practiced irresponsible sex. It’s all in how you view the sacredness of life. And I will take life over death in this case every day of the week.
Joe: That’s very easy for you to say. I suspect that you don’t have a great deal of opportunity as far as the sexual arena goes. You’re lucky. A personality like yours really is the best birth control anyone could ever ask for. Now I must remember…Don’t feed the trolls…Don’t feed the trolls.
Diane you know nothing about me so don’t go around speculating about stuff you don’t even know. Diane I really do hate calling democrats ignorant but when you make comments like that you leave me know choice but to call you ignorant. Youre a very sad person Diane and I feel bad for you I really do. I’ll be praying for you. Goodluck Diane. Trolls? And as far as my sexual life I call it responsible and smart not sloppy and irresponsible like I suspect about people who are defending your point of view.
OH, JOE! I can’t hide my feelings any longer. TAKE ME! It makes me soooo hot when you misspell words, ignore punctuation, write inarticulately and skew facts! I must have you! Yes! Yes! YES! Pull it out a little deeper! OHHHH BABY! (…writhing rhythmically while listening to the Hannity show in the background…)
Oh, wait. I think you’re the one who supposedly has the 3.84 GPA. Sorry. I only bed 4.0’s.
I didn’t know this was a an english class but yeah ok. Sorry Diane your not my type I date people with a little more class than you. But hey if you some how become a christian and a republican and you can get your facts straight give me a call sometime.
You bet, Joe. And, if you can somehow develop Christian like values while practicing your brand of Christianity and can get those ultra-conservative/gay republican city councilmen “straight,” you call me, too. Goodness, Joe, bantering with you is like going rabbit hunting with a bazooka.
LOL more ignorant comments. Keep ‘em coming Diane.
Diane- I don’t think I’ve ever been turned on this much ever. Give me a call, my number is 911-4763.
I don’t have any “world class statistics” to back this up, but nobody has ever gotten pregnant, herpes, AIDS, a broken heart, a broken life, or any other STD through abstinance. The reason us Republicans are so wild abstinance it is because it actually works, unlike condoms, the pill, or whatever else you’re in to.
Obviously you did not go to high school Chris. If you had, you would have realized that teens will have sex regardless of what their parent or teachers say. That is why we need comprehensive sex ed which includes dicussion of abstinence. Here is the message that parents/teachers should use: It is not a good idea to have sex before marriage…….but if you do, RUBBERS!!!!!!!!
Research has shown that abstinence only education has been ineffective. Actually, teens under abstinence pledges were more likely to get stds becuase they would often experiment with oral or anal. Moreover, students under abstinence pledges are less likely to use protection.
WHAT NOW? BOO YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris: get real. Try telling a poor undereducated teenager simply to not “do it.” It’s fun, it’s free, and you have runaway hormones at that age. The answer is not abstinence but birth control and education. P.S. I’ve known more republicans and reborn christians that f*ck like bunnies than any group I can think of.
Kid’s cheat. Do we as parents help them cheat cause kid’s are going to cheat anyways. Kid’s steal do we as parents help them steal cause there going to steal anyway. Kid’s lie do we as parents teach them how to lie effectively cause kid’s are going to lie anyway. Come on Adam still more ignorant comments by you I thought you learned your lesson last time.
Diane and Adam,
Didn’t you guys get the memo? According to the republicans Pat Roberston and our very own Channel & News, tHERE IS i REPEAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SAFE SEX. Just talking about sex in a responsible manner will make your kids screw everything in sight.
Abstinenece programs are working so well here in Omaha and Nebraska that We have the highest Rates of STDS in the Country!!! Isn’t that great
So let’s keep chanting that Love is great Sex can wait Crap while more and more children become infected with STD”S and unwanted pregnencies at least we’ll saving their souls for the next life.
Since We don’t have an open thread, I tried to come up with the best possible place to post this link. So College Dems the next time some young Republican or college Republican questions your patrotism ask them when they are going to enlist and check out the effort that some are making to help young conservatives in the war on terror.
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005_06_19_patri……
Robin you ignorance is overwhelming.
Thank you Joe,
Coming from you I take it as a real compliment it means I’m doing my job as a democrat exsposing the Lies and hypocrisy of the Right.
Again Robyn your theory that the conservative right has it out to get you and the rest of the world really shows you ignorance and I feel sorry for you cause as long as you have that mentality your fellow democrats will lose. Ben Nelson is as conservative if not more conservatice than most republicans in the senate. There is a reason Robyn Ben is like that. He knows his role now why dont you go find yours.
The Name is ROBIN let me break it down for you R-O-B-I-N not with y or two b’s or anything else. I know you mispell it out of contempt and ignorance or maybe you just can’t spell.
when did you ever hear or read that I said that the right was out to get me and the rest of the world. What I said Joey was that they are HYPOCRITS AND LIARS!!!
the STD rates in this state are the highest and abstinence only programs are ineffective on average most teens that take the pledge only wait an extra year to have sex veruses their peers who opt not to take the pledge.
My daughter will be twelve soon. We have had the basic sex talk but when she enters into a relationship for the first time, I want her to have alll the facts.
As a parent it is my responsiblity to make sure that she gets them but, I don’t want my tax dollars going to some school funded program that teaches children that condoms don’t work
If that makes me ignorant then so be it.
If pointing out that a great number of Republicans that support the war vote againts benefits and equipment for the troops makes me ignorant then so be it.
If pointing out that many republican supporters of the war wouldn’t even think about enlisting is ignorant then so be it. Don’t feel sorry for me Joe. I don’t need your sympathy feel sorry for this administration’s many failures.
Again more lies, more twisting of the facts, and most of all last but not least more ignorance. All my friends that are in the military are republicans all there parents are republicans. And come to think of it I dont know one democrat in the military. And most of the military are republicans because it’s people like you and Ted Kennedy who sit there and say we are occupiers not liberators. Robyn you truly are an ignorant and sad human being. But hey keep talking the more you talk the better it gets for the republican party.
I really bet those military guys love it when republicans cut their veterans benifits. This year in the U.S. senate, John Kerry proposed an amendment that would increase the death benefit for fallen national guard members to 100,000$. Every republican voted against it. The white house sent troops into harms way without the proper body armour. And most importantly, this administration got this country into war over LIES (proven by the downing street memos).
Do you remember when George Bush was at that banquet and made those jokes about not being able to find weapons of mass destruction? I bet soldiers love that one.
Ted Kennedy is exactly right. The best thing we can do for our troops is bring them home. In fact, a CONSERVATIVE republican rep. Walter Jones-NC, has cosponsered a bill to bring home our troops(btw, Walter Jones coined the phrase ‘Freedom Frie’). Our continued occupation of Iraq gives the insurgents a reason to fight. Without our occupation, they would be fighting against a populary elected government, which would not do them any good.
Time and time again, Joe comes in here talking rubbish like he is the wittiest guy around. Well Joe………you don’t know shit. You come in here and spew your Rush Limbaugh talking points without ever thinking logically about an issue. Don’t come back at me with stuff like “more lies, more twisting of the facts” and then just spew what your right-wing sugar daddy told you to say.
Joe have you served in the military. I have Spc. Quarles e-4 my mos’s 91w and 71LF5 ,
I have worn the uniform. I took the oathe. I re enlisted after 9/11. For those of you who think that there are no Democrats in the military think again. Yes the military overwhelmingly votes republican but there were quite a few Dems in the units I was in.
Most enlisted people vote Repub because they are unaware of just who is really looking out for their benefits and we all know it isn’t republicans.
I have friends serving in Iraq. I pray for their safe return everyday. My friends have friends in other units who come back here emotionally scarred from this war. The problem is repubs romanticize this war too much. I say pay enlisted people better wages.
Don’t make flippant remarks about going to war with the army you have blah blah blah. Make sure troops have the proper armormant.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! When ASKING SOLDIERS TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE
DON’T LIE TO THEM AND THE REST OF THE WORLD ABOUT YOUR TRUE MOTIVES FOR WAGING WAR!!!
More ignorance. To sit there and they that republicans hate our soldiers and are cutting there benifits and all the other BS you “spew” is rediculous. Hey don’t look at republicans when it comes to wanting the draft I don’t want to be drafted but it was a democrat who proposed the draft on the floor of the house. Charlie Rangel ever heard of him? Proposed that we bring back the draft. Charlie Rangel REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRAT FROM NY. So when ever you guys out there who aren’t real experienced with the democrats blog and they sound real appealing and they are all against bush and going to Iraq you just remember this it wasn’t a republican who proposed that we bring back the draft it was a DEMOCRAT Charlie Rangel from NEW YORK. THey will come back on here and try and make excuses for there democratic congressmans proposal but I am afraid that they are simply wrong when it comes to this issue.
Explain to me the exact bill and amendment that the “evil” republicans voted against that would put our soldiers in harm way cuase they dont have body armour. And Adam explain to me in detail this amendment that Flip Flopping Kerry proposed and when he proposed it. It is easy to make blanket statements that know one knows if it is true or not. So please explain to me in detail this amendment and when it was proposed. Same with you Robin Hood.
I hope all Democrats support the troops as much as Democratic Senator Dick Durbin. I’m sure the troops feel great when some of them are compared to Nazis. Great fake tears during the lovely fake apology.
Firstly, I thought Dick Durbin’s comments were innapropriate and do not represent the feelings of most democrats. Similary, to Trent Lott’s statement did not imply that all republicans are racist. Also, Rick Santorums statement comparing democrats to nazis do not reflect the statements of all democrats. Also, Secretary of Education Rod Paige calling the Teachers’ union a “terrorist organization”. Or when Jim Bunning referred to his senatorial opponent as “like one of Saddam Hussein’s sons.”Or when the charman of the New York Republican party compared Howard Dean to Lynn Stewart. Or when Bill Frist diagnosed Terry Schaivo by watching a video and then said the following; “When the neurologist said, ‘Look up,’ there is no question in the video that she actually looked up,”. BTW, Bill Frist is not a neurologist.
Here are some links for Joe:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00055
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00089
These amendments were offered to amend a supplimental spending bill.
And Joe, Chuck Rangel proposal was used as a political point. He did not even vote for it. Idiot
Exactly who’s the idiot now. Democrats play political games with the army and the draft. Very innapropriate. Very sad day for the democrats. And by the way why werent democrats bithcing like little girls when Mr. KKK himself Democrat Senator from West Virginia Robert Byrd was majority leader not once but two different times during his career and he is still a senator. He was in the KKK for a long time probably still is but hey it’s ok he is a democrat and as long as he bashes the president of the United States of America it’s ok right guys. For all the new people that come on to this blog and read all this all I got to say to you guys is that dont be so impressionable because these people stir up lies faster than anyother democratic group around. Most democrats are usually fair and balanced but these guys I’ve never seen anything like it.
Oh and you know those are loaded amdendments. Adam quit trying to paint people like John McCain a person who served in a pow camp for years being tortured and beaten every day like he hates our military and doesn’t want to veteran benifits. Hell Adam he would benifit from them same with Hagel and numerous other Senators. Quit playing politics with loaded amendments that democrats as well as republicans know are not going to be passed. Democrats are proposing such amendments for political purposes and to paint republicans in a bad light. Kinda like Rangel proposing the draft amendment then voting against it just so democrats can say president Bush is trying to bring back the draft. Quit playing politics with our military and our vets. For all you new people on this blog remember democrats play politics with amendments such as listed above so don’t take everything to heart that you hear from the democrats. You have to understand how politics works and this amendment proposal by the democrats is a classic political game such as Charlie Rangel D. from NY proposing to bring back the draft just to make President Bush look like he is bringing it back. It is a classic scare tactic and as we proved these last two elections THEY SIMPLY DON”T WORK.
Robert Byrd is 87 years old………..leave him alone.
I have proven that democrats support the troops while republicans do not. I refuse to repeat the cold, clear evidence which I stated earlier becuase I realize that you will just resort to name calling.
How old are you Joe? You have the rest of your life to be a tight-ass right winger.
Joe, once the fall semester begins, I encourage you to come to our meetings. If you have the balls to say those things here, you can say them to our faces.
Go ahead, tell me there are no democrats in the military. And while you’re at it you can tell that to my husband and friends in the Air Force. You can tell me to my face that I don’t support the troops. (BTW- Because my husband spent a tour in Baghdad, we get the VFW magazine. In it, they reported on the cuts to veterans benefits and the rejection of raising the death benefit by republicans. It’s a matter of public records.)
So, don’t be a wimp. Tell me to my face. I dare you.
Adam you talk about Trent Lott like you know him but he was making a 100 yr old sen. named Strom Thurmond feel good about himself at a birthday party for him. But you wont leave them 2 alone. Again another clear liberal double standard. And no I wont leave Robert Byrd alone you talk about Trent Lott who was the majority leader who had to leave the that post because of comments praising Strom Thurmond but yet you say nothing about Robert Byrd who is in the KKK and held that same position of majority leader 2 different times in his career. Another liberal double standard. Know your facts before you go and spew your hatred and lying of the republican party. You hate us so much you resort to the lowest dephts humanity and lie so blindly that is makes me sick and enrages me. And as for the name calling Adam look at your posts 4 above this one and tell me what the last word in that post is. Quit victimizing. I don’t feel bad for you I feel bad for the people who are impressionable and don’t understand how politics works and then read the hatred and lying on this blog that is who I feel bad for. So Adam don’t go around and with your pompous little attitude and try and make me think that my party hates our men and women in undiform. Remember this it wasn’t a republican senator who referred to our soldiers as NAZIS it wasnt a republican senator who referred to our soldiers occupiers not liberators. It was two Democrat senators who can’t learn how to keep there mouths shut and respect the men and women in uniform.
When is your first meeting. I’ll tell it to everyone there. How do you feel about your democratic senator from Illinois referring to your husband as a nazi Abbey. And Abbey why do you think someone like John McCain who spent years in a pow camp and was litterally almost killed in that camp would vote against this amendment. Think Abbey Think. Democrats politicize things you should know that by now. Oh and don’t threaten me thats a path you dont want to go down.
My brother is in Iraq so don’t go around acting like your any better than me bc of your husband and your “Friends”.
Once again we have people here who misrepresent the facts. Durbin did not call the troops Nazis. In fact the media and republicans took great delight in removing a couple of words from what he actually said and then went crazy calling for the man’s head.
For those of you who are new to the blog please access this link and read Durbin’s words for yourself and then decided.
http://durbin.senate.gov/gitmo.cfm…
Also Rangel introduced the darft legislation because he wanted to exspose the right’s lies about how well the war is going and how well recruiting efforts are going.
Because recruitment is down and if things don’t turn around soon in that area and with the war itself then we are going to seriously have to take a look at reinstating the draft.
Soldiers are not going to be tolerant of long tours and stop losses forever.
appearently my link does not work so here goes.
Durbin did not call anyone a Nazi here are his exact words:
If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners
Robyn your politicizing and it is really sad. I feel bad for you Robin Hood.
Sen. Durbin did describe the actions of American soiders of being similar to what Nazis and the Soviets did. - If you do not call that disgusting, they you miss the whole statement.
I still do not know how comparing the forcement of Gitmo detainees to view bikini clad photos and sitting on a cold floor to the horrors of what was done in the Holocaust and the real Gulags and by the VietCon.
It was over the top. No question, and he tried twice to rectify it. Not totally to my satisfaction, but I am letting it go because the veterans and jewish community seem to have forgave him. And because I am not a veteran nor jewish, I trust their integrity in the matter.
From the words of a great man (and sorry that I am not quoting him exactly, “Once you bring out the Hitler, Nazi card, you have no creditabilty. Only Hitler was Hitler, there are not countless or millions of people dying.”
This man - John Stewart
Chad,
I beg to differ Sen. Durbin was reading the findings of the investigation and what he said was to a lay perosn someone who didn’t know what the reports were about, that a person could sadly make the comparisons.
Should he have known that the right would take his words out of context and run with it yes.
Republicans call Democrats Nazis, communist, baby killers etc etc everyday and are unapologetic about it.
The Vice President of the United States can tell someone to go F themselves and there is not one ounce of outrage from the right and the left barely made a squeak.
I do not fault the Sen. for calling to task the actions of our administartion but I do wish that he chose his words more carefully next time since the right distort and pounce on every little thing we say.
Hate goes both ways.
Sometimes yes senators (on both sides) need to be told to go F themselves. They do little to no work, and yell on top of their soap boxes and get paid for it, out of my money.
So, if you still think that he did not call the tropps Nazis, then you c