From WLOS
Religion and politics clash over a local church’s declaration that Democrats are not welcome.
East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn’t support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say “the actions were not politically motivated.” There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.
This story is just developing so not much is known about the situation yet.
here is the link to the local tv station. The Evangelical right is always going on about how Liberals are destroying this countries moral fabric. how we hate the church. How we are going to destroy the church.
I say they need look no further than their own pulpits for that. It is becoming apparent to me that many of these preachers don’t believe a word of what Jesus said and how can they they are too busy condeming everyone to hell.
What does the good book say about this check out Matthew 7:1-5
At any rate here is the link for the TV newscast.
http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/5/5/212240/7757
WoW
that sums up just about everything religion doesn’t stand for
*does anyone else hear the “twilight zone” music when they read this?*
I think churches that do this should lose their tax exempt status. Churches enjoy this status because of that good old policy of seperation of church and state.
If they want to play these kinds of politics then they need to pay.
Seperation of Church and state is there to keep you from being persecuted not there to keep you from being offended. Remember that the next time you go and run your mouth about seperation of chruch and state.
speaking of running off at the mouth… *looks in Joe’s direction*
You cant argue that cause you simply cant.
Ooh, but I can. Have a nice day “Joe.” Do you have anything better to do than read our blog and try to be an ass? If you like Vokal so much, why don’t you actually get out there and work for him and stop wasting time.
BTW- Don’t even bother accusing me of the same. I volunteered for Anne Boyle for 4 hours Saturday (as well as many other Saturdays during this campaign) and I will be working for her again on Monday before the election.
I volunteer for him alot. More blind statements by dems. And im sorry that your candidate didnt win. Sucks being negative it never gets you anywhere. Sucks running your mouth.
Ill sit here all day proving you guys wrong. Its not that hard to do.
Yeah, you keep that up. The election is not over yet.
Its been over since you started going negative. You should not that.
I know we “should not that” (sic), but it’s a pretty dark day when the GOP tells college kids to stop going negative. Or tells anyone to stop going negative for that matter. Did you not see Bush against Dean, McCain, Kerry? WTF.
Did any of us write the Jim flier? No.
Is Longergan (the other flier) even a dem? No.
Did Anne write the flier or have anything to do with it? Not that any of us have been able to figure out. I’d be suprised, she’s pretty classy, and polling is showing her up on Jim. Why would she want to mess with that?
Furthermore, Jefferson wrote extensivley about what seperation of church and state was all about. So did Madison. Oh yeah, so did everyone between 1770 and 1810. So making any categorical statement about what it is designed to do seems pretty dumb unless you have wread all those works. And unless you are prepared to tell us what each and every drafter at the continental congress thought, what each and every ‘yeah’ voter on the bill of rights thought, in both houses, and what each and every citizen who voted those reps in thought, don’t say catigorically anything anyway about any amendment.
Much less what they have come to mean in light of the fact that a comanding majority of the supreme court, including a majority of the republican judges, use the living constitution approach.
But even if we only go with the jeffersonian approach (or even more so the writings of Madison, ie, the guy who freak’n drafted the 1st amendment) then you will see clearly that keeping churches from growing too influential in govornment was more important than any other thing about the 1st amendment. The idea that the colonists were here to escape religious persecution is rediculous. Look at the codes and laws of the first 5 colonies to disprove that. And since that’s the only thing I’ve ever heard the GOP use to explain why the 1st amendment should be seen as permissive of explicit govornment intervention by religous groups, then I’m not buying it. The only thing the federalists and anti-federalists could agree on was that religion should not have influence in govornment affairs.
Bush is trying to repeal the ‘’stay out of politics and be tax-exempt rule” for churches (or rather he wants to give them 3 gimmes per election, plenty of time for a pastor to make it clear how to vote). From this, to ashcroft’s assault on the 4th, 5th, and 8th amendmens, to the Shiavo wreck and it’s disregard for the 10th amendment, and the blatent violations of the 14th every third law bush passes, he as the anti-constitution president. And don’t you forget it.
So don’t come and try to lecture us about facts and history and most of all, negative advertisements.
I am and I will lecture you and I will as long as you keep making dumb and uniformed statements like the one above. That statement you so “elegantly” put it just shows me how rediculous and out of step with reality you are Mr. history teacher. You say it was designed to keep religion out of Governmental affairs. But you see most americans vote based on religous and moral standards when it comes to candidates. So to say that it was put in there to keep religion out of governmental affairs is simply not correct. And religion will never be kept out of governmental affairs as long as America is around.
Joe wrote:
“Seperation of Church and state is there to keep you from being persecuted not there to keep you from being offended. Remember that the next time you go and run your mouth about seperation of chruch and state. ”
Sorry, idiot… Separation of church and state exists so that churches can’t have any influence in politics, policy, and so that the state (i.e. government) can’t have a preferred religion. It also exists so that governments don’t fund institutionalized religion. You and your ilk need to go read some history and poli-sci books… But I suspect from your errors in grammar and spelling that you haven’t made it to college yet like most of the posters on this forum (hence the name, UNO college democrats.)
LOL personal attacks wheather its Jim Vokal being gay or me a college student with a 3.8 gpa it doesnt really matter because you lose on all fronts. Every where from presidential to senate to the house all the way down to stormy dean and anne boyal. YOU LOSE!!!!! and there is a reason why you lose. And its not bc you are open minded and tolerant. Everything you claim to be. LOSERS.
Joe wrote:
“there is a reason why you lose. And its not bc you are open minded and tolerant. Everything you claim to be.”
Maybe it’s because morons like this lack “reason” and vote. Eh? Anyone?
Since it’s not because we’re open-minded and tolerant…then enlighten me, what is the reason we’re “losers?”
I just told you andrew can you not read. C’mon dont waste my time on stuff i just pointed out.
Look at me, I’m Joe. I sit at home all by myself and sulk over how nobody likes me… I have a 3.8 gpa, I don’t have any friends, and nobody likes me because I’m a Republican. I’m bitter and wish I had a girlfriend, or at least a hand that wasn’t so callused. I’m a college student with a 3.8 gpa. This is my favorite blog because people actually respond to me; this is so amazing because everything I say is pig-headed, libelous, bullshit, and absolutely ridiculous. Hey guess what? Republicans own the presidency, Senate, and House, but this really doesn’t mean anything because deep down we all know that every stupid ass thing we’ve done is going to be struck down by the courts. (sigh). Hey… did I mention that I have no friends? a 3.8 gpa?? Cause a 3.8 gpa makes me smart, right? My 3.8 gpa makes whatever I say true… right?
Actually you people called me stupid so I defended myself. And for the courts yes you do own the courts. And i’ll explain to you why you own the courts, cause you have to get appointed there cause you people can’t even get elected. And you know why you sad pathetic little girls can’t get elected? Cause you have no solutions. All you do is bitch about what the president is doing or you call him a murderer or you say he wants the draft even though it was a dem congressman from new yourk charlie rangel who introduced it on the floor of the house. or you call Condi Rice a “sell out” because she thinks for herself. Or you go after people like Jim Vokal with false accusations or you go around calling Don Rumsfeld a war criminal or you call our soldiers occupiers not liberators or push your gay and lesbian agendas on family valued christians who dont believe the same way you do or you throw pies at pat buchanon or anne coulter when there speaking at a colleges or you support people who go around saying that the victims of 9/11 are little eichmans. Or you call people like dave friend scandalous. ETC ETC ETC it goes on and on and on and on. And yes you will have some wisecrack comment back to me saying how dumb i am and how i hate gay people cause i have a different opinion than they do. but if you want to know why the democratic party is doing so bad this is why. Its not because everyone else hasnt seen the light or opened up there mind to new ideas its because you people have no ideas. Plain and simple you have NO IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!
But you know what everyone of us is a child of god and I love everyone of you guys like your my brother or sister cause you know what in the whole sceam of things it doesnt really matter. Look at Rwanda the Hutsis killed just under a million tutsis because they didnt agree with them. So when it gets right down to it America is the greatest country in the world bc we can dissagree with out killing each other with machettes or swords. We do it in a civil manner. god bless im out.
Friends don’t let friends drink and post.
Joe, it would be “whole scheme of things” not “whole sceam of things.”
Who wants to invite Joe to a College Dems meeting?
I, and I am sure all of you, would love a debate with him, and with his 3.8 gpa he might be more than I can handle. Anyways, I am sure we would all have a good time and save nothing else we might actually be enlightened on how ostracizing homosexuals and minority religions in our society could possibly be considered open-minded and good policy.
Joe, seriously though, I commend you for stating your views on here and standing up for your beliefs, regardless of how different from ours they may be. Keep the comments coming.
WoW nice two days guys.
i like this
This is much better than all the dems just sitting around and
patting our own asses.
I don’t agree with your views on the separation of Church and State, but i agree that some how politics have just flooded this damn town election.
Why does the political party really matter in the end of this?
Are they really going to be making “Republican” or “Democrat” decisions?
I think we need to get back to the people of politics and not party politics.
This bill explains why this pastor thinks its ok to excommunicate democrats. This is just disgusting. Just another example of how republicans change the rules to suit their agenda all in the name of democracy and the culture of life.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/153/story_15386_……
Sorry lets try this link again.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/153/story_15386_1.html
Recently I looked into starting a non-profit organization for a local community. One thing that caught my eye was that in the rules for a tax exempt non-profit organization (i.e. Churches) clearly states “they (chuches) must not participate in, or intervene in, any
political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to)
any candidate for public office”. Don’t believe me? Check the IRS website. Now with that said I have an Idea that will turn the neo-con rapture righties on their ears. Lets start going to church, with tape recorders. Then when a pastor, minister, or priest starts talking about politics we put the fire to their feet. Require that a real apology be given to their flock or risk losing their Tax exempt statis.
I plan on trying this before the 2006 elections. I’m sick of hearing people use their religion to make a point for politics.
Keep your politics out of my religion and your religion out of my politics.
Independently Yours
Go for it, Toby!
If you read the full text of the Pastor’s speech, shortly after he says “If you voted for John Kerry, repent or leave.” he says “If you support Arnold Schwarzenegger or John McCain, repent or leave.”
This guys isn’t a crazy Republican, he’s just crazy.
Also… If you are going to start showing up at church with a tape recorder, I’ll start taking a recorder to any university in the United States. I’ll guarantee you you’ll get 10 times as many political sermons in college than at church. If you don’t like the politics of your pastor you can change your place of worship- there are hundreds in Omaha. It’s not as easy when you need a specialized degree.
Republicans may have the clergy, but the liberals own the colleges.
chris… it’s irrelevant if a priest spoke out against both Democrats and Republicans. Priests/pastors/etc are not to participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office. Clearly this priest did just the opposite of this stipulation, and on three accounts (!!), and so, this church should be in flux concerning its tax exempt status… or at least penalized and warned.
REV. Jesse Jackson, REV. Al Sharpton, ETC ETC ETC c’mon guys they are clergy and they do it all the time. Oh but it’s ok bc they are for democrats right. Wrong another example of double standards by the far left. What a joke .